Legal Secondary Basement Suites

[Dylan2457]

I'm considering tunring the basement of my Fort McMurray home into a legal suite, however being so new to this I have some questions.

My home is new and meet all building codes. Are building and development permits difficult to obtain even though the basement meets the minimum requirements? I don't plan on leasing the legal suite when it's finished for some time, does it cost to have a legal suite sit empty? Extra taxes? Extra insurance? ETC.

Thanks for any response or additional information to these questions.

 

[Courtney Hammond]

I'd have to look up Fort McMurray specific for some of your questions, but we only do legal suites in Edmonton and St.Albert and based on that I'd answer this:

Building/development permits are not hard to obtain- just application heavy (the first one took a lot longer than the next ones) You need to check with the citys permits and zoning requirements. (most of if not all of this can be found online- google fort mcmurray city zoning, or secondary suites... links will show up) In Edmonton the permit fees are based on what you are building, as well as the over all cost of the project. After making sure that your house is zoned correctly... the main difficulty is making sure you have all the information the applications ask for. If your house isn't zoned for secondary suites- you would have to ask the city if there is a process to gain approval. (I just briefly looked at secondary suites information in Fort McMurray and it doesn't mention zoning. I would call the city and double check.)

"Is there a cost to having a legal suite sit empty?"

The value of your house has increased- so property taxes increase, I would think that insurance may be the same due to the value of your house being higher (we've never had a house for more than the time to put the suites in so I'm not 100% of the increase other than there is one)

We love our suites! We feel it is worth the extra effort to make them legal, and have seen a huge financial (both rent and value) from having them.

 

[Matt Crowley]

[email protected], post: 161965, member: 27048[/EMAIL]]
The value of your house has increased- so property taxes increase, I would think that insurance may be the same due to the value of your house being higher (we've never had a house for more than the time to put the suites in so I'm not 100% of the increase other than there is one)

Property tax (ie. assessed value) is reset upon sale. The municipality assessed value might change with the legal suite status but I have had several that did not change in assessed value in Edmonton.

Maybe just wait for someone who has developed legal suited in Ft Mac as far as their permit times. You could just call up current planning office in Ft. Mac as well. Most municipalities understand that development is a huge economic driver of growth and do not make the DP and BP process difficult. Rezoning is a larger effort however.

 

[James Benson]

I live in the Kootenay's in BC, so it's likely different, but for me, when you rent a suit your taxes go up and your water/ sewer and garbage collection bills double. When it's not rented it's the other way around. Ask the city about it, then you will know for sure, and it only takes a few minutes.

 

[Courtney Hammond]

Property tax (ie. assessed value) is reset upon sale. The municipality assessed value might change with the legal suite status but I have had several that did not change in assessed value in Edmonton.

We've seen an increase on our St. Albert property, but not all of our Edmonton properties.

 

[rkiefte]

Hi all, I'm going to join in this post. I have a rental in St. Albert that went through the legal suite secondary rental grant process. It was fairly straight forward and an easy process. Is there a grant for a secondary suite in Edmonton? I'm looking at a house that could possibly be turned into a secondary suite. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Courtney Hammond]

We have one in Edmonton under the cornerstone grant. You'd have to check with the city if it's still up and running (the one I was part of was budgeted until Jan 2016) and then also what the rules are. The city has changed the structure and timeline a few times- so any information I have would be based on what it was. When I last checked- upgrading a suite into a legal suite were investor friendly (meaning it didn't have to be your personal home) but if it was a new suite- then it was only open to personal homes. We have a new suite in our current home- and must stay here- for the duration of the term (5years) or pay back the $20,000.

It would be best to call the cornerstone grant office (listed on the city website or call 311) and get first hand information as they have changed things a few times.

 

[rkiefte]

Thanks for the info guys. Sounds very similar to the St. Albert grant. They were sticky on a few items but loose on some others.

I'll call the city to confirm prior to any purchases in the future.

 

[Dustin Racine]

Zoning is a big issue obviously as is parking. For every 2 bdrms u need one additional parking stall. So if u have 3 bdrms on the main floor and 3 in the basement u will need four stalls. Two Bdrm basement suite means 3 stalls, etc. In Edmonton they allow tandem parking, other municipalities like fort Saskatchewan they do not. Will need two separate furnaces: one serving upstairs one serving basement. They will each need separate primary interlock switches. You will need a separate entrance, smoke/co2 detector in all common areas (landing and mech. room as well as hallway). Mechanical room will need to be completely sealed with drywall. This is a smoke barrier not a fire barrier so u can use 1/2" drywall instead of 5/8". A good trick because it sucks to seal any gaos with mud is too use spray foam to fill void spots then skim it with fire caulking or mud once it solidified. Also, obviously all bedrooms must have windows and they need to have a minimum dimension of 15" for access and egress.
Hope that helps.
Cheers!

 

[Dustin Racine]

Also, a goofy change in the electrical code just came into effect alberta wide I believe. I'm not an electrician so don't quote me on this but my understanding is that any bedroom or common area requires a co2/smoke detector. They are all too be hardwired in series. So in your case I believe the only exceptions would be the kitchen and bathroom. Best thing is to just go to planning and development and talk to a safety codes officer. They can fill you in.

 

[Dustin Racine]

We have one in Edmonton under the cornerstone grant. You'd have to check with the city if it's still up and running (the one I was part of was budgeted until Jan 2016) and then also what the rules are. The city has changed the structure and timeline a few times- so any information I have would be based on what it was. When I last checked- upgrading a suite into a legal suite were investor friendly (meaning it didn't have to be your personal home) but if it was a new suite- then it was only open to personal homes. We have a new suite in our current home- and must stay here- for the duration of the term (5years) or pay back the $20,000.

It would be best to call the cornerstone grant office (listed on the city website or call 311) and get first hand information as they have changed things a few times.

I was reading about a similar grant program in St. Albert but there are a lot of stipulations. As you said: must live in home for 5 years, there's a cap on the rent you can charge, the tenant must make below average income, you must submit paperwork annually showing the total amount of rent u charged and have your tenant sign off, etc.
Was the process that big of headache for the cornerstone grant? Assuming, its non-transferable ie. If you sold the next owner couldn't continue the five year process.

Thanks for the insight.

Cheers!

 

[Sherilynn]

Not only are requirements different in each municipality, but also they change periodically within the municipality. For example, when we received our Cornerstones grants, our only requirement was to rent to people making below median income. We could charge any rent we wanted and the reporting requirements were minimal. (I emailed the Secondary Suites department with the income of each new set of tenants. Otherwise, nothing.) Our grants were transferable, we didn't have to live in the house, and we didn't need a second heating system for existing suites. A year later, the requirements were substantially different. And now, it's like a completely different program.

Bottom line: always do your own research to be sure you have the most current information for your region.

 

[Courtney Hammond]

I was reading about a similar grant program in St. Albert but there are a lot of stipulations. As you said: must live in home for 5 years, there's a cap on the rent you can charge, the tenant must make below average income, you must submit paperwork annually showing the total amount of rent u charged and have your tenant sign off, etc.
Was the process that big of headache for the cornerstone grant? Assuming, its non-transferable ie. If you sold the next owner couldn't continue the five year process.

Thanks for the insight.

Cheers!

As Sherilynn expressed the Cornerstone grant has changed several times- but I will share our experience in regards to your question. We also have a legal suite in St. Albert (not on a grant) and can share that journey as well.

Cornerstone Grant Edmonton 2015 (Summer)- new suite
- Extra paperwork and timeline. You CANNOT start anything until you have your grant in place or the costs spent will not be included in the grant. We didn't realize this when we started and had the HVAC systems put in place before the grant approval was complete and was not allowed to use it as a cost. So make sure you don't apply then start- you must wait until it has been 100% approved with a seal.
-extra inspections: There is an inspector that comes out before your approval to make sure the foundation is in good repair and that the city's investment will be a good one. He also comes back at the end.
-TENANTS: There is an income restriction based on the number of occupants. RENT: there is no restriction on a BASEMENT SUITE in the program, but there is on townhouses/apartments. We can charge what we want as long as the tenant meets the income limits and can afford the rent.
-ONGOING paperwork: We have to submit a form that the tenant signs indicating that they qualify for the low-income suite. If the tenant changes we have to send in new paperwork.
*If the tenant is a student, or new to the workforce and their income increases to above the qualifying amount they do not need to leave if you want them to stay.
TERM AND CONDITIONS: Those on the title of the house must live in the house for 5 years, and must occupy the upstairs unit. It is written as non-transferable- however I have heard that arrangements have been made with the city to transfer it to a new owner. I would guess this would be a case by case basis.

ST. ALBERT LEGAL SUITE:
- although we don't have a grant suite in St. Albert, we do have a legal suite. I found the process in ST. Albert to be cleaner and costs a lot less for the permits. St. Albert was our first suite, and they were very helpful in education and clear guidelines as to what needed to be done. This is largely because it is a smaller city I'm sure. But I miss those days!

Again- I would recommend calling the grant director, talk through all options available and restrictions to the program. Ask about the process and timelines, and if you can start work right away or have to wait (we ended up waiting an extra 6 weeks... which put a lot of pressure on the team to complete everything on time for our tenant to move it) As grants always change- and answers are often only given when the question is asked.. call
.

 

[Courtney Hammond]

Also, a goofy change in the electrical code just came into effect alberta wide I believe. I'm not an electrician so don't quote me on this but my understanding is that any bedroom or common area requires a co2/smoke detector. They are all too be hardwired in series. So in your case I believe the only exceptions would be the kitchen and bathroom. Best thing is to just go to planning and development and talk to a safety codes officer. They can fill you in.

Yep- a bunch of new codes came in this year that change legal suites! Make sure your trades are up to date on everything- your electrician may not know the firecode as it is a building code and not an electrical code... although there are new electrical codes for suites too. (We have 6 interconnected fire alarms in our suite that we are finishing now... its 1000 sft! previously we only needed 2. Make sure when applying for the basement suite permit that you ask along the way what has changed what needs to be done.. just to brush up if anything has changed. I find every time I do one something has changed.

 

[Dustin Racine]

One of the big wigs downtown must have shares in a smoke detector manufacturing company. It's ridiculous...complete overkill. Now new homes need a pipe stubbed up from the backfill under the basement slab so they can test for radon gas! It's always evolving...not for the better...but always evolving nonetheless.

 

[Dustin Racine]

And thanks for the feedback regarding your experience with basement suites and grant programs.

 

[Matt Crowley]

One of the big wigs downtown must have shares in a smoke detector manufacturing company. It's ridiculous...complete overkill. Now new homes need a pipe stubbed up from the backfill under the basement slab so they can test for radon gas! It's always evolving...not for the better...but always evolving nonetheless.

Well, radon is an actual problem in the Edmonton area. When we have soils with a high salt content it makes the breakdown of the slab a lot more likely and the thin sheet of poly really isn't going to offer sufficient protection if there is a real problem. The standpipe is there in case mechanical venting is later required.

Some other changes are in the pipeline: additional insulation between front attached to home to prevent exhaust infiltration and exhaust ports on garages.

Some progressive changes made with the latest code changes as well, on the HVAC size. Previous versions of the code did not consider the energy efficiency / thermal resistance of windows and insulation. Result was that we were installing furnaces with too high BTU and, much more significantly, oversizing our heat ducts.

 

[Dustin Racine]

It's just frustrating. I'm not going to sit here and pretend to be an expert on radon gas but I have never heard of a slab deteriorating due to radon. When I see concrete slabs with cracks its because a. the builder didn't spend the money to provide proper heat during and after the pour and/or b. the concrete contractor didn't prep properly and tamp the sand good enough. We have a builder who preps his own slabs but pays the concrete guy to just pour and set and he never has any issues.

As far as the industry goes, I'm sure the government has known about radon for a long time and now they implement all these changes at the worst possible time. The majority of our material comes from the states so with the low Canadian dollar we keep getting consistent material cost increases from our supplier. Builders meanwhile, want plumbing done in homes for less then they paid a couple years ago since prices and demand have gone down. Plus their expenses are now higher with these new code requirements: they need to now use wash rock in basements, no sand. Plus sump barrels need to be 100% sealed, special sump pumps, any plumbing penetrations thru the slab need to be sealed, where the slab meets the foundation wall needs to be sealed, smoke/co2 detectors in all the bedrooms, etc.
So where do you cut costs? Your labor.
Radon gas testing will be big business since everybody will have paranoia. Might need to switch it up.