What`s behind the curtain - What due dilligence should be done before signing up for a course?

[AndyLuchies]

Just watched the marketplace episode. I didn`t think they were very fair about it, although I never had Mark Rousseau as a presenter when I went on the weekend...and it looks like they got some lawyer who doesn`t do very much investment real estate, or perhaps they didn`t explain to him clearly what a lease option is.
In any event, I`m pretty disappointed with Marketplace, I always assumed they tried to be neutral...I guess they`re all stuck on the left side of the quandrant, haha.

 

[JimWhitelaw]

Something to keep in mind is that there are now several "flavours" of Rich Dad training available. Robert Kiyosaki has licensed the brand to several companies (multiple streams of income...) and so the quality can vary quite a bit. In Canada, the two main groups working under the "Rich Dad" banner are Darren Weeks` Fast Track group and the one featured in this Marketplace episode Russ Whitney`s "Wealth Intelligence Academy". WIA may be renamed to fully utilize the RD brand now. There`s lots of info on Whitney on RipoffReport.com:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/Search/russ-whitney.aspx

My wife and I have some experience with both groups here in Canada. I`m quite familiar with the Fast Track group and some of their events are quite useful, but they`re definitely a different atmosphere from REIN. Darren does put on a 2 or 3 day Real Estate seminar that I have not been to, but appears to have some decent content from people who have actually bought revenue properties. My wife has been to an event with Marc Rousseau and had a severe dislike for him. I`ve been to a couple other Rich Dad Education (Whitney) freebie events and came away unimpressed.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out those two organizations and that people may have dramatically different experiences at training event that are all labeled "Rich Dad". It`s important to know which underlying group you`re actually dealing with.

I agree with Andy that the Marketplace piece was poorly done. The experts they had weren`t very knowledgeable and they didn`t dig very deeply into the Whitney group or contrast with any other organizations that do provide valuable training.

 

[housingrental]

Hi Andy
REIN should be congratulated for its ethics and their charitable involvement.
Note they`re a business though and the ~$210 monthly fee isn`t donated.
Note also that REIN is totally different - the quality and depth of information is head and shoulders above others, and they don`t continually upsell and manipulate their customers to tens of thousands in fees for mentorship, etc..


QUOTE (AndyLuchies @ Jan 30 2010, 09:46 PM) I side with Ed on this, doing the 3 day Rich Dad weekend (only $500 for me AND my wife) with 12 cds of info and 3 big books, totally worth the investment..but I wouldn`t go any further in it. (Not with REIN around)
Of course, its all relative, when you have a bunch of seminar systems to chose from, you can be pickier. I didn`t spend a dime on Rich Dad after that cheap weekend because I knew REIN was a better option. If Mark Loeffler would have written his book a little sooner

, maybe I would`ve chosen the $26 investment at amazon.com EVEN over the REIN membership... so its all relative.

Most people in real estate know that a couple thousand is peanuts to spend on a system if you get a few great tips, so I`m sure most of the courses out there are a better investment than the average mutual fund,
but even still, I love to see evidence that the person presenting isn`t making a tonne off the presentations. Thats why I love REIN. They do it because they enjoy it. Don`s book royalties go to charity, how could you doubt a guy who clearly is PAYING (in time/energy/money) to talk with us!

I`m sure all the people out there who are selling their systems for $5000 - $50,000 are offering an incredible ROI for what you pay....and I will attend the vast majority of them eventually, but I still like to see presenters that just do it to give back.
(my $0.02)
One day, I plan on being a guy at the front of the room, and my plan is for all entry fees to go to charity. Way to pave the way Don!!

ps. Some of us still use the term "Dude" religiously.... a bold remnant of those who refuse to be swayed by current pop culture.

 

[housingrental]

Hi Andy

What wasn`t fair about showing the seminar`s for what they really are?

If you were one of the people who up their credit card limits, then signed up for tens of thousands of dollars of "advanced" training using funds you didn`t have from your credit card, how happy would you be with them?

You don`t think that lawyer does much investment real estate?????? Look him up...... He`s a MAJOR very well known and accomplished lawyer... If memory serves he also writes a weekly article for the star and/or other major papers...


QUOTE (AndyLuchies @ Jan 30 2010, 10:38 PM) Just watched the marketplace episode. I didn`t think they were very fair about it, although I never had Mark Rousseau as a presenter when I went on the weekend...and it looks like they got some lawyer who doesn`t do very much investment real estate, or perhaps they didn`t explain to him clearly what a lease option is.
In any event, I`m pretty disappointed with Marketplace, I always assumed they tried to be neutral...I guess they`re all stuck on the left side of the quandrant, haha.

 

[AndyLuchies]

Sorry Adam, I never heard of the lawyer and I assumed if he did know his stuff, he wouldn`t act so ignorant about lease options. I believe his words were something like "I can`t imagine anyone stupid enough to agree to a fixed purchase price"....in my humble opinion, that doesn`t sound like a expert to me...I certainly wouldn`t have him on my team. But then, I`m only speaking from having heard a 5 second response of his...

as for the Rich Dad stuff, all I`m saying is that you get well over $500 worth of stuff for that weekend. Its not a sham, its just ALSO a sales strategy. There are certainly better, more honest ways to present, but I still got my money`s worth, for sure.

By the way, although REIN charges for their membership, I seriously doubt they make any kind of profit off of it, and that`s one of the reasons why its easy to trust them. I wouldn`t expect others to donate everything to charity, even though I plan to. My strategy is all related to the platform I`m going to use and the audience I`ll be catering to (and its part of my Belize that may not be realized for several years).

QUOTE (housingrental @ Jan 31 2010, 12:33 PM) Hi Andy

What wasn`t fair about showing the seminar`s for what they really are?

If you were one of the people who up their credit card limits, then signed up for tens of thousands of dollars of "advanced" training using funds you didn`t have from your credit card, how happy would you be with them?

You don`t think that lawyer does much investment real estate?????? Look him up...... He`s a MAJOR very well known and accomplished lawyer... If memory serves he also writes a weekly article for the star and/or other major papers...

 

[jseib]

WIA now Tigrent`s Rich Dad Education isn`t THAT different from REIN, at least not since the whole Ron LeGrand thing late in 2009. The strategies of quick turn are very very simular to Rich Dad`s lease option and wholesale courses.

I did the 3 day training event and it set off all my BS alarms, however some of my business partners loved it and bought some of the advanced courses. A few people from the classes have gone on to own a lot of properties in the 6 months since but the vast majority are back to their day jobs and chasing other training.

CBC`s report was pretty good but it never really got into the advanced training which is a shame because that`s where the real meat and potatoes of whether this is a scam or not really is..

The strategies are much like Ron LeGrand`s and primarily work in the USA, we tried them here with very mixed success, stopping foreclosures was impossible unless you could pay out every cent that was outstanding, no lender would even negotiate with us... However we did find "deals" that we could acquire at $20-30,000 below estimated market value but none of this 40-50% off dream deals WIA and other trainers like to showcase.. I`m sure they are out there and do happen but not at all frequently..

 

[housingrental]

Hi Andy

Lawyer - The lawyer is correct. A seller of a normal residential property doesn`t normally offer a contract on their property for three years away for a cheap price unless stupid. Show me a deal like this. I`ll show you 10 000 ones that aren`t. The time and money it takes to systemic this is better spent on more lucrative en devours.

Rich Dad - You can get the same information in a few $30 books. It doesn`t matter - to me nothing can justify their strategy.

REIN - You can`t be serious. You think they`re running a for profit business to not make money from it? Why would you think that? Fees apx $210 / month? membership apx. 3500 / month? or ? - gross apx. $735K / month. + other revenue sources (supplemental books, promotion, etc..). I`d guess there`s enough left other at the end of the month that there not running a loss

And good for them. They`ve provided a desireable value added service and made their competition look light years behind them in every aspect of the business.




QUOTE (AndyLuchies @ Jan 31 2010, 10:44 PM) Sorry Adam, I never heard of the lawyer and I assumed if he did know his stuff, he wouldn`t act so ignorant about lease options. I believe his words were something like "I can`t imagine anyone stupid enough to agree to a fixed purchase price"....in my humble opinion, that doesn`t sound like a expert to me...I certainly wouldn`t have him on my team. But then, I`m only speaking from having heard a 5 second response of his...

as for the Rich Dad stuff, all I`m saying is that you get well over $500 worth of stuff for that weekend. Its not a sham, its just ALSO a sales strategy. There are certainly better, more honest ways to present, but I still got my money`s worth, for sure.

By the way, although REIN charges for their membership, I seriously doubt they make any kind of profit off of it, and that`s one of the reasons why its easy to trust them. I wouldn`t expect others to donate everything to charity, even though I plan to. My strategy is all related to the platform I`m going to use and the audience I`ll be catering to (and its part of my Belize that may not be realized for several years).

 

[Allie]

"By the way, although REIN charges for their membership, I seriously doubt they make any kind of profit off of it, and that`s one of the reasons why its easy to trust them. I wouldn`t expect others to donate everything to charity, even though I plan to. My strategy is all related to the platform I`m going to use and the audience I`ll be catering to (and its part of my Belize that may not be realized for several years)."

I think Ron Legrand disagrees with your view. This is what Ron posts on his website: " Don Campbell – is a Canadian marketing machine that fills about three-dozen seminars a year to supply the members for his association. Not only does he make a killing at his seminars but also he`s created a continuous stream of income from over 550 members paying him $200 per month to be part of his group. Grab your calculator, do the math. "

Reference: http://www.ronlegrand.com/catalog/details....che=1&pid=0

REIN isn`t a socialist or non-profit organization. Ouch! My heart just broke into nano bits

 

[Gen1GT]

I`m obviously with Andy on this one (hey HEY hey). Nobody here, nor anyone on the CBC "expose" has taken the "advanced" courses. Nobody here can decide if they`re a good ROI. There`s a lot of jugement going on that`s based on speculation.

 

[housingrental]

What content could be provided that couldn`t be provided in REIN for much cheaper? Or in purchasing 10 books for $30 each?

QUOTE (Gen1GT @ Feb 2 2010, 07:47 AM) I`m obviously with Andy on this one (hey HEY hey). Nobody here, nor anyone on the CBC "expose" has taken the "advanced" courses. Nobody here can decide if they`re a good ROI. There`s a lot of jugement going on that`s based on speculation.

 

[koop]

QUOTE (JimWhitelaw @ Jan 31 2010, 12:51 AM)
Something to keep in mind is that there are now several "flavours" of Rich Dad training available. Robert Kiyosaki has licensed the brand to several companies (multiple streams of income...) and so the quality can vary quite a bit. In Canada, the two main groups working under the "Rich Dad" banner are Darren Weeks' Fast Track group and the one featured in this Marketplace episode Russ Whitney's "Wealth Intelligence Academy". WIA may be renamed to fully utilize the RD brand now. There's lots of info on Whitney on RipoffReport.com:



http://www.ripoffreport.com/Search/russ-whitney.aspx



My wife and I have some experience with both groups here in Canada. I'm quite familiar with the Fast Track group and some of their events are quite useful, but they're definitely a different atmosphere from REIN. Darren does put on a 2 or 3 day Real Estate seminar that I have not been to, but appears to have some decent content from people who have actually bought revenue properties. My wife has been to an event with Marc Rousseau and had a severe dislike for him. I've been to a couple other Rich Dad Education (Whitney) freebie events and came away unimpressed.



Anyway, I just wanted to point out those two organizations and that people may have dramatically different experiences at training event that are all labeled "Rich Dad". It's important to know which underlying group you're actually dealing with.



I agree with Andy that the Marketplace piece was poorly done. The experts they had weren't very knowledgeable and they didn't dig very deeply into the Whitney group or contrast with any other organizations that do provide valuable training.




My wife and I went to a fast track thing last year, it was two full days of selling and more selling, as far as I could see fast track is a REIT, they also sell the fight aids, save taxes thing, and last but not least Bill Bartlett (sp?) was there to sell his system on how to become a billionaire buying bad debt. (you should have seen the line to kiss his a$$). But to be fair I did have to leave at around noon on the Sunday, but there was very little on how to do it yourself.



But one of my friends who got me interested in real estate, who's dad has been doing real estate investing for over 35 years just loves it. But he might be ready to take his money out of his own real estate, and put it into a REIT. But I wouldn't hesatate to call him when I have a problem and need to ask a question about investing

 

[AndyLuchies]

Sorry guys, I guess I didn`t do the math on REIN. I assumed that monthly seminars, paying all the REIN staff, free ACRE events, free ALIVE events, etc. pretty much spent the $200/mo that we give them...either way, REIN doesn`t seem like they`re out to make money. If they were, it seems like there`s much better ways to do it.

And that`s one of the reasons I trust them...that and the fact that Don`s willing to turn down hundred of thousands of dollars to prevent slick salesmen from using REIN as a platform to sell bargain condos in Phoenix.

By the way,

I was specifically NOT saying that the advanced training WIA offers is worth the money or anything, I was merely saying that only paying $500 for a tonne of info, most of which was decent and a weekend seminar, most of which was decent, for both me and my wife, was a VERY good deal.

Although I do agree with Adam that you could get an even BETTER roi by only spending your money on books....(if you actually went on and did what the books tell you to do).
But then again, you could conceivably spend $0 and figure everything out yourself as well, which would be an infinite return on your money. So the question is not just "whats the best ROI", its also "whats the quickest way to start making money?" For us, the quickest way was to take the intro Rich Dad weekend, (the accompanying cds are excellent and well worth $500 for people like me that had to transition from poor person thinking to rich person thinking), then sign up for REIN for a long term membership. And although I would never want to downplay the total awesomeness of REIN, we did find value in some of the Rich Dad material that we haven`t seen in the same form in REIN.

 

[housingrental]

Hi Andy

Re:

"m...either way, REIN doesn`t seem like they`re out to make money. If they were, it seems like there`s much better ways to do it."
What do you think there doing? They`d register as a not for profit if not making money

They`ve done a fantastic job. They deserve every cent they make. But there likely making more than a few cents. There smart people. They`ve built one hell of an impressive business. And they likely can grow much much larger.

"nd well worth $500 for people like me that had to transition from poor person thinking to rich person thinking)," What does this mean exactly? Is this in reference to the RDPD book thought of spending less than you make, then investing in cash flowing assets? or?

 

[AndyLuchies]

QUOTE (housingrental @ Feb 2 2010, 08:52 PM) "nd well worth $500 for people like me that had to transition from poor person thinking to rich person thinking)," What does this mean exactly? Is this in reference to the RDPD book thought of spending less than you make, then investing in cash flowing assets? or?

I`d define it as changing from a lifestyle of "How can I spend as little money as possible, to maximize my return?" to "How can I make my time as productive as possible?" Sometimes it takes money to become more efficient. I didn`t see that as clearly as I do now.

There, now I guess you don`t have to buy the cds.

 

[JimWhitelaw]

QUOTE (housingrental @ Feb 2 2010, 01:45 PM) What content could be provided that couldn`t be provided in REIN for much cheaper? Or in purchasing 10 books for $30 each?
Quite possibly nothing. There`s a variety of other factors to consider though.

• Timing. REIN QuickStarts only run once a year or so. That`s a long time to wait if someone is keen to learn and get started. (What`s the ROI on doing nothing for a year?)
• Learning style. Some people learn great from reading books. Others need the focused environment of a classroom or seminar setting to push them into learning mode.Environment. Sometimes the actual material taught is less important than being surrounded by encouraging like-minded people, especially people who have done what the student wants to learn.

I believe that with few exceptions, there`s something to be learned or gained from every situation. Even a seminar that is really just a cover for a sales pitch is probably full of people looking to invest money - potential JV partners! What a great way to introduce people to your success with the REIN system. Finding one good partner easily could be worth $500 and two days of being lectured by an arrogant asshat trying to upsell worthless training. Bottom line is that I think it`s valuable to keep an open mind and look for positive opportunities wherever possible.

 

[koop]

QUOTE (JimWhitelaw @ Feb 2 2010, 08:41 PM) I believe that with few exceptions, there`s something to be learned or gained from every situation. Even a seminar that is really just a cover for a sales pitch is probably full of people looking to invest money - potential JV partners! What a great way to introduce people to your success with the REIN system. Finding one good partner easily could be worth $500 and two days of being lectured by an arrogant asshat trying to upsell worthless training. Bottom line is that I think it`s valuable to keep an open mind and look for positive opportunities wherever possible.

I know Darrin Weeks is big on networking at his spiel, but when my wife and I went to that free, rich dad high pressure, interductary thing, it was made VERY clean to put your business cards away! So if you pay them the $500, do you get to network?

 

[JimWhitelaw]

QUOTE (koop @ Feb 3 2010, 08:56 AM) I know Darrin Weeks is big on networking at his spiel, but when my wife and I went to that free, rich dad high pressure, interductary thing, it was made VERY clean to put your business cards away! So if you pay them the $500, do you get to network?At most of the Fast Track (Weeks) events I`ve been to, people were encouraged to practice their "elevator pitches" with others at their table, to give feedback to each other and to change tables to sit with a new group after each break. In some ways it`s a better networking environment than REIN because the sessions are shorter and the breaks more frequent. (Pet peeve: REIN evening events are poor for networking. 6.30 - 11.00ish with one 15 min break is just tiring and not great for meeting other people). That`s for the longer 1-2 day events. For the shorter evening events, like the F.T to Paradise etc, it`s not specifically mentioned but lots of people are "working the room". I haven`t done any the Tigrent/Whitney weekends; I`m surprised that people would be discouraged from networking. Wow.

 

[housingrental]

This is a very entertaining post and I thank you for witting it


QUOTE (JimWhitelaw @ Feb 2 2010, 09:41 PM) Quite possibly nothing. There`s a variety of other factors to consider though.

• Timing. REIN QuickStarts only run once a year or so. That`s a long time to wait if someone is keen to learn and get started. (What`s the ROI on doing nothing for a year?)
• Learning style. Some people learn great from reading books. Others need the focused environment of a classroom or seminar setting to push them into learning mode.Environment. Sometimes the actual material taught is less important than being surrounded by encouraging like-minded people, especially people who have done what the student wants to learn.

I believe that with few exceptions, there`s something to be learned or gained from every situation. Even a seminar that is really just a cover for a sales pitch is probably full of people looking to invest money - potential JV partners! What a great way to introduce people to your success with the REIN system. Finding one good partner easily could be worth $500 and two days of being lectured by an arrogant asshat trying to upsell worthless training. Bottom line is that I think it`s valuable to keep an open mind and look for positive opportunities wherever possible.

 

[housingrental]

I must have missed that

One of the big things that I took away from reading the book was:

If I ever become a realtor, I should give this book to every potential client I meet.

Buying real estate never seemed like a better idea




QUOTE (AndyLuchies @ Feb 2 2010, 09:22 PM) I`d define it as changing from a lifestyle of "How can I spend as little money as possible, to maximize my return?" to "How can I make my time as productive as possible?" Sometimes it takes money to become more efficient. I didn`t see that as clearly as I do now.

There, now I guess you don`t have to buy the cds.

 

[JimWhitelaw]

QUOTE (housingrental @ Feb 3 2010, 09:48 AM) This is a very entertaining post and I thank you for witting it Thank you. I`ll be here all week. Please try the veal and don`t forget to tip your waitress!