Radical changes coming for CREA

[wealthyboomer]

QUOTE (RedlineBrett @ Oct 6 2010, 09:11 AM) All kinds of mis-information here. Lawyers are contract experts not experts at valuation and negotiation. Are you going to trust your lawyer to work out the details of your purchase when they have never even been in the property? Is your lawyer going to call you when you`re off work or offer advice on the weekend when thats the only time the buyer/seller can get together? How is this approach better than working with your agent and having a `approval of buyers/sellers lawyer` condition? Buyers and sellers have always had the option of nominating their lawyer to represent them under the current system but when you look at the logistics of working this way you will see why no one does.
Lawyers are experts in negotiation. They have YEARS of education, versus a few WEEKS that realtors obtain. A lawyer is a professional negotiator, and has professional indemnity insurance to cover the legal advice and legal work[/b] that are essential in real estate negotiations.

Not all Lawyers are in the business of acting as agents for sellers of real estate. Those that are, will have experience with marketing, etc.
Rules 10 to 12 and rule 22 of the lawyer`s professional conduct handbook, specifically permit a lawyer to employ an assistant in the marketing of real estate property with certain limitations. That assistant may be referred to as a "real estate marketing assistant" and the assistant may place or remove signs relating to the sale of a property, attend to a property in order to unlock it and let members of the public, real estate licensees or other lawyers enter, and provide members of the public with pre-printed information about the property.

 

[Thomas Beyer]

QUOTE (Rickson9 @ Oct 31 2010, 11:44 AM) This is all focused around another facet of the web site. Assuming that a web site can`t sell real estate this will be a non-issue as well.
I concur here .. as rates BEFORE were already negotiable !

BUSINESS AS USUAL !!

The only people it`ll help is do-it-yourselfers that live in a high demand area who list for cheap on MLS and then do their own homework/showing/offers .. which is not the average seller .. and even then they lose some buyers who shop with an agent unless that agent gets compensated by do-it-yourselfer !!!

 

[RedlineBrett]

QUOTE (wealthyboomer @ Nov 14 2010, 07:06 PM) Lawyers are experts in negotiation. They have YEARS of education, versus a few WEEKS that realtors obtain. A lawyer is a professional negotiator, and has professional indemnity insurance to cover the legal advice and legal work that are essential in real estate negotiations.

Not all Lawyers are in the business of acting as agents for sellers of real estate. Those that are, will have experience with marketing, etc.
Rules 10 to 12 and rule 22 of the lawyer`s professional conduct handbook, specifically permit a lawyer to employ an assistant in the marketing of real estate property with certain limitations. That assistant may be referred to as a "real estate marketing assistant" and the assistant may place or remove signs relating to the sale of a property, attend to a property in order to unlock it and let members of the public, real estate licensees or other lawyers enter, and provide members of the public with pre-printed information about the property.

I posted that a month ago. what took you so long?

Do you negotiate for a living? What qualifies you to pass judgement on what makes a good negotiator? Are you a member in good standing with the professional negotiating society of Alberta? No, you are not because such a designation doesn`t exist. You can`t get a degree in negotiating.

Are you a lawyer? What makes you so sure that lawyers receive training and must undertake continuing education in the fields of negotiation in real estate?

Making a case in front of a judge or negotiating a settlement prior to going to court is a different beast than residential sales work. If you think it would be cheaper to have your lawyer do all of your negotiating for you please go ahead and do some deals and report back to us. While you are on the phone with them please ask how much they charge to be on standby at all times during your listing and after hours.

Again, I have to continue with this thread to prevent realtor-haters from spreading mis-information about the industry.

With regards to you going and digging up information on the lawyer`s handbook you would do well to educate yourself on the the whole issue. Specifically the real estate act of Alberta and its implications here:

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/index.cfm

Search real estate act. Pull it up, go to Section 1, V, i and ii. They will define what trade is and what a real estate broker is. Section 2 `e` qualifies Lawyers as exempt from the act when acting in the course of the law. This is meant to include such instances as foreclosure enforcement, divorce, probate etc.

You want to trade in real estate to make money you are defined as a real estate broker, and must be an industry member. Section 1 V is very clear on this. Don`t believe me call the real estate council and ask for their interpretation, since they are in charge of administering the act.

While you have the act open, go to part 4 and read up on the real estate assurance fund. This is a fund that industry members pay into so that if a member of the public is wronged by an industry member there is restitution available. Many brokerages carry independent liability insurance for negligence or wrong-doing, all you have to do is ask them.

 

[RedlineBrett]

QUOTE (ThomasBeyer @ Nov 14 2010, 08:22 PM) I concur here .. as rates BEFORE were already negotiable !

BUSINESS AS USUAL !!

The only people it`ll help is do-it-yourselfers that live in a high demand area who list for cheap on MLS and then do their own homework/showing/offers .. which is not the average seller .. and even then they lose some buyers who shop with an agent unless that agent gets compensated by do-it-yourselfer !!!

Thomas seems to have summed up 15 pages in one sentance with this post.

 

[wealthyboomer]

QUOTE (RedlineBrett @ Nov 15 2010, 11:09 AM) I posted that a month ago. what took you so long? I pass along the information as it passes my desk, or when my time permits.
QUOTE (RedlineBrett @ Nov 15 2010, 11:09 AM) What makes you so sure that lawyers receive training and must undertake continuing education in the fields of negotiation in real estate? The information I get is from the lawyers themselves. I have many colleagues in the business.

QUOTE (RedlineBrett @ Nov 15 2010, 11:09 AM) If you think it would be cheaper to have your lawyer do all of your negotiating for you please go ahead and do some deals and report back to us. While you are on the phone with them please ask how much they charge to be on standby at all times during your listing and after hours. The lawyers I`m familar with have flat fees for their real estate dealings. They don`t have supposed `standby` charges.

QUOTE (RedlineBrett @ Nov 15 2010, 11:09 AM) Again, I have to continue with this thread to prevent realtor-haters from spreading mis-information about the industry. I`m sorry you feel that way.

QUOTE (RedlineBrett @ Nov 15 2010, 11:09 AM) With regards to you going and digging up information on the lawyer`s handbook you would do well to educate yourself on the the whole issue. Specifically the real estate act of Alberta and its implications here: The information isn`t necessarily Alberta specific, as the thread is about all of Canada. I thank you for the Alberta specific info and will pass it along to my sources for their enlightenment and consideration.


There is a great deal of resistance whenever disruptive technology or innovation threatens to spoil the comfortable status quo. Those who have invested heavily in the old ways, those who will be slow to adapt, and those who must answer for failing to protect consumers against the previous industry “owners” all stand to lose. My view of the matter is that the anger and fear displayed in some of the comments above are testimony to the extent to which Lawyers Real Estate is perceived as a disrupter.--Peter Mericka B.A., LL.B

 

[JDaley]

QUOTE (RedlineBrett @ Nov 15 2010, 11:09 AM) I posted that a month ago. what took you so long?

Not sure why my original post was deleted (other than Brett whining to REIN from what I hear), however not everyone reads your posts - your views are considered biased, after all you are a realtor. The fact of the matter is brokerage fees will be far different in a few years than now – across the board. The CB kicked up such a firestorm that every tom, dick and harry and his grandma are now enquiring about low cost realtors or listing on the MLS for a nominal fee ($500 or FREE in TO). Few people will be willing to pay $30,000 when they know they can get the same traffic through their home by simply listing only on the MLS, and without the added pressure of a realtor to sell low.

QUOTE (RedlineBrett @ Nov 15 2010, 11:09 AM) Do you negotiate for a living? What qualifies you to pass judgement on what makes a good negotiator?
The same can be said of you ? Do you negotiate for a living ? I`ll be sure to hire a professional negotiator next time I`m in the market bartering with the old Chinese guy for baby bok choy. Never heard of professional negotiators– ridiculous.

QUOTE (RedlineBrett @ Nov 15 2010, 11:09 AM) Are you a lawyer?
Are you ?

QUOTE (RedlineBrett @ Nov 15 2010, 11:09 AM) Again, I have to continue with this thread to prevent realtor-haters from spreading mis-information about the industry.
I find this statement funny, since as you recall I specifically directed this adjective (mis-information) to you not long ago and here you are attacking Wealthyboomer with it - incredible.

Look, low cost realtors are here to stay - and those of you who say that the low cost business model is not sustainable aren`t being honest; if so then why is 2% Realty the fastest growing mid-size company in Alberta in 2009-2010, spotlighted by the Calgary Herald recently and covered by the CBC and the CTV ? Why are the 0.5% and 1% commission realtors growing rapidly. The fact is that more and more people are cluing into the fact (thanks to the CB) that posting a sign on your lawn, and listing on the MLS for $500 or FREE in TO + lawyer is all you need to sell a home. Its not business as usual, and making such claims is both counter-productive and misleading, especially since everyone I`ve spoken to recently regarding real estate are enquiring about low fee realtors. And for real-estate investors (I`m assuming REIN has thier interests in mind and not the realtors) this is a good thing. Now of course this post will be deleted shortly, so enjoy it while you can

 

[JohnS]

QUOTE (JDaley @ Nov 15 2010, 10:24 PM) Not sure why my original post was deleted (other than Brett whining to REIN from what I hear), however not everyone reads your posts - your views are considered biased, after all you are a realtor. The fact of the matter is brokerage fees will be far different in a few years than now – across the board. The CB kicked up such a firestorm that every tom, dick and harry and his grandma are now enquiring about low cost realtors or listing on the MLS for a nominal fee ($500 or FREE in TO). Few people will be willing to pay $30,000 when they know they can get the same traffic through their home by simply listing only on the MLS, and without the added pressure of a realtor to sell low.

Wow, there was a whole bunch of assumptions in this whole piece. Of course, that doesn`t mean that they`re wrong, but they are just assumptions and opinions, and nothing more.

I have to ask, though, what other facts do you have about the future? What facts do you have about other future markets? And I`d be especially interested in whatever facts you know about who`s going to win the future sporting event of your choice, as I haven`t talked to my bookie in a while.....

Have a good one, all!

JohnS

 

[luckyluciano]

QUOTE (JohnS @ Nov 15 2010, 11:37 PM) Wow, there was a whole bunch of assumptions in this whole piece. Of course, that doesn`t mean that they`re wrong, but they are just assumptions and opinions, and nothing more. I have to ask, though, what other facts do you have about the future? What facts do you have about other future markets? And I`d be especially interested in whatever facts you know about who`s going to win the future sporting event of your choice, as I haven`t talked to my bookie in a while..... Have a good one, all! JohnS


This X 2. It amazes me how JDaily continues to spew opinions about something he knows little to nothing about as though it was fact. Realtors here post their knowledge about what it takes to list and sell houses and he propogates that its a website which sells houses and not the countless hours required to maintain and work in this business, behind the scenes, in order for this profession to exist. I suppose he tells the lawyer or surgeon his services are not worth their fees either since the task appears to be completed in less than 1 or 2 hours! If it was just about ther website, wouldn`t the internest have taken over? Why doesn`t he ask the realtors in the U.S if these same rule changes made the costs go down? I did, and the answer is no because people SELL houses, not websites or advertsing. Those are just tools.

 

[gwasser]

QUOTE (luckyluciano @ Nov 16 2010, 07:03 AM) This X 2. It amazes me how JDaily continues to spew opinions about something he knows little to nothing about as though it was fact. Realtors here post their knowledge about what it takes to list and sell houses and he propogates that its a website which sells houses and not the countless hours required to maintain and work in this business, behind the scenes, in order for this profession to exist. I suppose he tells the lawyer or surgeon his services are not worth their fees either since the task appears to be completed in less than 1 or 2 hours! If it was just about ther website, wouldn`t the internest have taken over? Why doesn`t he ask the realtors in the U.S if these same rule changes made the costs go down? I did, and the answer is no because people SELL houses, not websites or advertsing. Those are just tools.

JDaley has shown over and over again, that he is not one to be bothered by facts when they stand in the way of his perceptions and ideas. When that is pointed out to him on this and other threads, he usually becomes ugly so that the moderators are forced to curtail or cancel the posting stream. Which has happened to several of us who did not back away from his sometimes outright nasty comments.

JDaley then predictably states that his postings were censored because of the comments of others.
My guess is that JDaley loves to `stir the pot`. The more you respond, the wilder his statements.

Brett, there is no need to try to correct JDaley`s misrepresentations. Most on this forum know what JDaley is about and trying to engage in correcting everyone of his confused ideas is futile. Your enthusiasm for real estate and providing good Realtor services is much appreciated. Lucky for you I have the same appreciation.

 

[fumbrunner]

I think there should be some give an take on both sides. The truth is that reality will fall somewhere in the middle. Low cost listings will be more prevelent, no question. But the market for those will be smaller than most realize. For real estate investors, who know the market, their properties and have the time to look after showings, paperwork, etc, it is a great opportunity. Having said that, the do-it-yourselfer will likely be small in numbers. Not only that, but I forsee the seller paying a 2% commission to the buyers agent anyways.

Let`s acknowledge what it is. There will be changes. There will be all sorts of different options for listing properties. But it won`t be as revolutionary as some think and many, many people will continue to use the services of a realtor particularly on the buying end.

 

[JDaley]

QUOTE (gwasser @ Nov 16 2010, 09:00 AM) JDaley has shown over and over again, that he is not one to be bothered by facts when they stand in the way of his perceptions and ideas. When that is pointed out to him on this and other threads, he usually becomes ugly so that the moderators are forced to curtail or cancel the posting stream. Which has happened to several of us who did not back away from his sometimes outright nasty comments.

Attack the point and not the person; try adding something to the discussion other than attacking me for once. My view is and always has been that excessive pricing strategies and unfair tactics employed by real estate brokers and the CREA will change, and this was born out in the CB complaint, by the media and the general public. Few sympathize with realtors on this issue. I`ve been attacked mercilessly on this forum for taking this position (attacks from realtors mainly); the vitriol has been incredible, however no amount of misdirection will change the fact that real estate fees will now begin to change - and for the better, said from a real estate investor. I don`t hate realtors, however I find the pricing strategies used by real estate brokers a little too much. And I believe sincerely that what transpired with the CB is a good thing. I understand this is a sensitive issue for brokers, but deal with it.

Thanks.

 

[housingrental]

I support JDaley`s post 100%

QUOTE (JDaley @ Nov 16 2010, 11:32 AM) Attack the point and not the person; try adding something to the discussion other than attacking me for once. My view is and always has been that excessive pricing strategies and unfair tactics employed by real estate brokers and the CREA will change, and this was born out in the CB complaint, by the media and the general public. Few sympathize with realtors on this issue. I`ve been attacked mercilessly on this forum for taking this position (attacks from realtors mainly); the vitriol has been incredible, however no amount of misdirection will change the fact that real estate fees will now begin to change - and for the better, said from a real estate investor. I don`t hate realtors, however I find the pricing strategies used by real estate brokers a little too much. And I believe sincerely that what transpired with the CB is a good thing. I understand this is a sensitive issue for brokers, but deal with it.

Thanks.

 

[housingrental]

I`m baffled from reading through these posts...

Although you might disagree with JDaley`s vision of how the future might play out I don`t see what was offensive or factually incorrect in any of his posts.

Godfried / Brett / Lucky - Maybe something was missed over 16 pages - Can you condense the issue / clarify what the concern is?

 

[JDaley]

QUOTE (housingrental @ Nov 16 2010, 10:01 AM) I`m baffled from reading through these posts...

Although you might disagree with JDaley`s vision of how the future might play out I don`t see what was offensive or factually incorrect in any of his posts.

Godfried / Brett / Lucky - Maybe something was missed over 16 pages - Can you condense the issue / clarify what the concern is?

Adam,
Let me say this, I haven`t used a realtor in a while but with the CB filing and settlement, I now plan to use relators to list a property only (on the MLS) and I hope more and more of these services become avaiable to sellers. The outcome of the CB complaint, even if it only increased peoples awareness of these services, is a great thing to investors and sellers alike. Thanks.

 

[JohnS]

QUOTE (housingrental @ Nov 16 2010, 12:59 PM) I support JDaley`s post 100%

Hey Adam, I would support his post much more if it wasn`t so much a matter of "pot" and "kettle" and "black being called". There have been lots of times where he lashed out against others first (and, notably, against others and not against their ideas), and when they tried to correct him (either about themselves, others, or the ideas), he`s called "Foul!" So, to my mind at least, it`s kind of hard to take him seriously when he says things like "Attack the point and not the person; try adding something to the discussion other than attacking me for once".

Couple that with the way he usually doesn`t provide support for his claims when asked, and I really just can`t take him seriously. Which is too bad, as some of his ideas make some sense, but that just gets lost due to everything else.

Have a good one!
JohnS

 

[JohnS]

QUOTE (housingrental @ Nov 16 2010, 01:01 PM) I`m baffled from reading through these posts...

Although you might disagree with JDaley`s vision of how the future might play out I don`t see what was offensive or factually incorrect in any of his posts.

Godfried / Brett / Lucky - Maybe something was missed over 16 pages - Can you condense the issue / clarify what the concern is?

I guess I`ll answer this, as I was the one that restarted this, I think, even though I wasn`t mentioned by name.


This is the statement that I didn`t like from a recent post of his; "The fact of the matter is brokerage fees will be far different in a few years than now..." As has been mentioned, he often confuses his opinions with facts, and I don`t know if he`s doing it intentionally or honestly doesn`t know what the difference is. Now, his opinion that they will be different might very well be true, but that doesn`t make it a fact. I`m trying to think of any possible fact someone could have about the future, and I just can`t think of any. Even a statement that everyone would take to be true, like "The sun will rise again tomorrow", isn`t a fact. First off, the sun doesn`t actually rise at all, but more importantly, the sun could supernova tonight and we`d all be dead, what with the earth being destroyed and all. Now, I`m pretty damn sure that`s not going to happen, and I would bet everything I could get my hands on that it won`t, but it is possible. So, there are no facts about the future.

However, he keeps writing as if he knows everything, and as if they`re facts that the stupidest person should understand. But, they`re not facts at all, and merely his opinions. And when people disagree with his opinions, he takes it as a personal attack, and then `responds`, as he sees it, `in kind`. Except that normally he`s the first person to actually attack someone - it`s not `in kind` at all! (And yes, I did say "normally" - there might have been a few instances where others went after him first in that thread, but it was a carry-over from others, or there might have been some where he was honestly attacked first, but they`d be in the minority. Now, I haven`t gone through every single thread and counted, and I`m not going to, so I might be wrong here. It`s just my opinion, and I recognize that. However, I`m willing to bet most other people would hold a similar opinion...)

Anyway, that`s some of what`s caused people to post things they did. Have a good one!

JohnS

 

[bizaro86]

QUOTE (housingrental @ Nov 16 2010, 10:01 AM) was offensive or factually incorrect in any of his posts.

Some of the posts have been deleted, and there were a few comments that I thought verged into the grey around making a comment about a person and not an issue. Obviously someone at REIN thought so as well, since they`re gone.

Michael

 

[JohnS]

Oops - with all that I just said, I still forgot one thing, Adam. I have found that most of JDaley`s more recent posts have been better in nature than his earlier ones, and I hope he continues that way, as it was a big improvement. If he continues this way, then I`m sure more people will take him more seriously.

Have a good one!

JohnS

 

[JDaley]

QUOTE (bizaro86 @ Nov 16 2010, 02:59 PM)
Some of the posts have been deleted, and there were a few comments that I thought verged into the grey around making a comment about a person and not an issue. Obviously someone at REIN thought so as well, since they're gone.



Michael




Not quiet, more likely to do with the person complaining to REIN - not the content (as I'm told). I'm surpised my other messages haven't yet been deleted (bad for business I guess - upset brokers) and I noticed the REINTeam isn't on today, so look for these posts to be deleted sometime soon

 

[RedlineBrett]

QUOTE (wealthyboomer @ Nov 15 2010, 04:57 PM) There is a great deal of resistance whenever disruptive technology or innovation threatens to spoil the comfortable status quo. Those who have invested heavily in the old ways, those who will be slow to adapt, and those who must answer for failing to protect consumers against the previous industry "owners" all stand to lose. My view of the matter is that the anger and fear displayed in some of the comments above are testimony to the extent to which Lawyers Real Estate is perceived as a disrupter.--Peter Mericka B.A., LL.B

I guess this guy can help you when you decide to buy a home in Australia.